[COMMUNITY] Print quality test

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By BEEVERYCREATIVE and Hello 3D Printing World
User avatar
endeffect
Posts: 64
Joined: 04 Sep 2015, 17:45
Location: Switzerland

Re: Print quality test

Post by endeffect » 28 Sep 2015, 15:11

replicator wrote:
endeffect wrote: So, this week-end, i've changed the z-screwed bar.... two times, with new ones, its easyly can be find because it's standard M5 one, after many tries and test, the Z-wobble continue to happen.. even with no bended Z-screws..

Because one problem arrive with others, filament now stuck randomly on my nozzle.. with the same plastic i've used before, lubrified or not.. i've clean the nozle, but happen and happen ..

A bug happened after many try to fix the problems, the end-stop z have not stopped Z-azix and broken my glass plate..

Sorry for my english, i'm verry disapointed.. even with all the efforts I have made , I have not managed to have a correct printing .. so i can understand you, i've received my printer 14 august and I still have not managed to have a correct printing :cry:
I'm sorry to hear it doesn't go well. I also feel frustrated too because so many hours were spent trying to get the hardware to work reliably but the more I try to use it the more problems seem to crop up. The RepRap Prusa has been around since 2010 and this particular version of it is quite an expensive one with the promise of good results so expectations were high. We naturally expect some issues but this feels more like a beta product where we are working as unpaid testers to help identify and rectify design defects.

After I saw your post on the irregularities I was interested to find out how good or bad my printer was which is why I started the thread. I took a photo of the last good print I did before the printer stopped working and it looks to have exactly the same sort of issues as yours did.

Image

I wouldn't be surprised if another Prusa kit half the price could do as well or better.
I see your problem on your white part, it's exactly the same i have.. i've changed two times the screw, tryed many time to change where the screw on the bar holder holds, but nothing to do..

My roomate have a RepRap one, Prusa I3 Rework 1.5, with an e3D V6, it work well and cost less than this one, no wobble, not stuck nozzle, without any lubrification.. i agree with you.. :cry:

This product cost 700 Euro in my countrx and the reprap costed 450 euros for my roomate..

paulocaveboy
Posts: 17
Joined: 28 Sep 2015, 21:10

Re: Print quality test

Post by paulocaveboy » 28 Sep 2015, 21:28

a baseline test would be useful as i feel i'm stabbing in the dark a little especially with print speeds and grip pressure on filaments.

i do see many improvements that can be and should be made to this printer as i was building and now in use after 2 days. im only getting my first print off as i write.

replicator
Posts: 28
Joined: 21 Sep 2015, 19:35

Re: Print quality test

Post by replicator » 29 Sep 2015, 00:19

paulocaveboy wrote:i do see many improvements that can be and should be made to this printer as i was building and now in use after 2 days. im only getting my first print off as i write.
I think you've hit on a problem there as many of the key parts including the chassis are made from CNC machined metal they are not readily upgradable by the typical end user. For example look at the stability of the chassis, pick 2 corners on the base and wiggle. You'll note there is significant movement, similar problems exist elsewhere on the chassis too. You can tighten the screws all you like you'll snap them before you resolve the issue.

This is a typical Prusa chassis and it looks to be a lot more sturdy ...

Image

Note how the stepper is in the middle rather than off to one side as in the hbp. The design in the hbp is going to make the chassis shear & wobble back and forth with every seek of the Y axis. It would be a great deal of work to switch the design and as there are similar issues elsewhere you may as well just get a totally new chassis made up for it.

The x stepper is at the top of the carriage due to the placement of the dual extruders. I think the forces would be more evenly distributed if you move back to the centre which is again the typical location.

The carriage is very heavy due to the all metal dual extruders etc. seeking it around will cause lots of wobble and shake with the existing chassis. The nuts that mate the Z axis to the carriage are not held securely you will get movement there too. Getting weight off the carriage would most likely involve switching to a Bowden's style extruder. Moving to Bowden's extruders would probably let you return to the central position for the X stepper too.

The problem is all the above work is more like a total redesign of the printer and it is also going back closer to the original design which IMHO is better. I just find it totally disingenuous that they claim up to 20 micron layer resolution when IMHO the chassis and design are notably inferior with regards the stability and accuracy that would be required to achieve that. The typical Prusa only claims 100 micron layer resolution and given that IMHO that looks to be a much sturdier design I would think they should remove that claim.

smoreira
BEEVERYCREATIVE
Posts: 29
Joined: 01 Sep 2015, 15:53

Re: Print quality test

Post by smoreira » 29 Sep 2015, 17:24

replicator wrote:
HALFORD wrote:What if any tests exist already in BVC factory/shop?
Generally you would expect that a number of kits would be sent out to be built and assessed for problems. I would of expected most of the issues to have been picked up during that phase. I get the impression we are doing the testing.
Hello guys,

I'm Sergio and I'm part of the BEEVERYCREATIVE team, although I’m not a developer. ;) Thanks for getting in touch and giving your feedback.
Our helloBEEprusa is a project that is supposed to evolve... in the hardware and add-ons, and we want the customers to do to this with us.

That said, I'm sorry to learn your experience has been less than great.

Regarding the fact you mentioned, and that you are testing the product, let me clarify that we thoroughly tested the printer before we started to sell them.
The helloBEEprusa was tested then and still is undergoing tests now! It's a continuous process. We're going to improve a lot of things... remember this product has only 3 months on the market.
Main thing here is that this kind of product may have different performances that vary with the user, and his expertise and each individual assembly process. Not saying it's the case here, but you all know this is true. In the "replicator" case, we are trying to find a solution directly with his UK reseller, so he can expect news from them very shortly.

We’ve sold hundreds of helloBEEprusas so far, and we want each sale to correspond to a satisfied customer, even if they’re not happy at the moment.

Little note: Our development team is known for the high quality on the development process, check BEETHEFIRST international awards and the testing from different sources, as Make Magazine, e.g.

If you want you can contact me directly to smoreira@beeverycreative.com or send me a PM.

Regarding other suggestions you all made here, I forwarded it to our Dev team to be analyzed. ;)

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
BEEVERYCREATIVE team

User avatar
endeffect
Posts: 64
Joined: 04 Sep 2015, 17:45
Location: Switzerland

Re: Print quality test

Post by endeffect » 29 Sep 2015, 20:31

smoreira wrote:
replicator wrote:
HALFORD wrote:What if any tests exist already in BVC factory/shop?
Generally you would expect that a number of kits would be sent out to be built and assessed for problems. I would of expected most of the issues to have been picked up during that phase. I get the impression we are doing the testing.
Hello guys,

I'm Sergio and I'm part of the BEEVERYCREATIVE team, although I’m not a developer. ;) Thanks for getting in touch and giving your feedback.
Our helloBEEprusa is a project that is supposed to evolve... in the hardware and add-ons, and we want the customers to do to this with us.

That said, I'm sorry to learn your experience has been less than great.

Regarding the fact you mentioned, and that you are testing the product, let me clarify that we thoroughly tested the printer before we started to sell them.
The helloBEEprusa was tested then and still is undergoing tests now! It's a continuous process. We're going to improve a lot of things... remember this product has only 3 months on the market.
Main thing here is that this kind of product may have different performances that vary with the user, and his expertise and each individual assembly process. Not saying it's the case here, but you all know this is true. In the "replicator" case, we are trying to find a solution directly with his UK reseller, so he can expect news from them very shortly.

We’ve sold hundreds of helloBEEprusas so far, and we want each sale to correspond to a satisfied customer, even if they’re not happy at the moment.

Little note: Our development team is known for the high quality on the development process, check BEETHEFIRST international awards and the testing from different sources, as Make Magazine, e.g.

If you want you can contact me directly to smoreira@beeverycreative.com or send me a PM.

Regarding other suggestions you all made here, I forwarded it to our Dev team to be analyzed. ;)

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
Hi

I undertand your point of view, we know a 3D printer need a lot of time to be setted and ajusted, it's normal, but when wee see, like saiy Replicator, we do to redesign a big part of the printer to be functionnal, it's not what i've expected, I'd like to keep your printer with a second next to it functional to improve it, but now my means do not allow me :(

The problem it's i can't print parts for improve it.. because the glass plate it's brokent, the filament stuck.. and on the extruder, the bearings that serve to direct the wire into the hot end are blocked when the wire is tight, as this ball bearing accepts no axial force .. even when slightly tight

replicator
Posts: 28
Joined: 21 Sep 2015, 19:35

Re: Print quality test

Post by replicator » 30 Sep 2015, 07:49

smoreira wrote:
replicator wrote:
HALFORD wrote:What if any tests exist already in BVC factory/shop?
Generally you would expect that a number of kits would be sent out to be built and assessed for problems. I would of expected most of the issues to have been picked up during that phase. I get the impression we are doing the testing.
Hello guys,

I'm Sergio and I'm part of the BEEVERYCREATIVE team, although I’m not a developer. ;) Thanks for getting in touch and giving your feedback.
Our helloBEEprusa is a project that is supposed to evolve... in the hardware and add-ons, and we want the customers to do to this with us.

That said, I'm sorry to learn your experience has been less than great.

Regarding the fact you mentioned, and that you are testing the product, let me clarify that we thoroughly tested the printer before we started to sell them.
The helloBEEprusa was tested then and still is undergoing tests now! It's a continuous process. We're going to improve a lot of things... remember this product has only 3 months on the market.
Main thing here is that this kind of product may have different performances that vary with the user, and his expertise and each individual assembly process. Not saying it's the case here, but you all know this is true. In the "replicator" case, we are trying to find a solution directly with his UK reseller, so he can expect news from them very shortly.

We’ve sold hundreds of helloBEEprusas so far, and we want each sale to correspond to a satisfied customer, even if they’re not happy at the moment.

Little note: Our development team is known for the high quality on the development process, check BEETHEFIRST international awards and the testing from different sources, as Make Magazine, e.g.

If you want you can contact me directly to smoreira@beeverycreative.com or send me a PM.

Regarding other suggestions you all made here, I forwarded it to our Dev team to be analyzed. ;)

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
Thank you for your reply. Before I made my purchase I did spend time reading about the 3d printing process, the different types of printers and generally what to expect in terms of issues. Actually I spent quite a lot of time, I did also note that your company is well respected and that is why I thought I'd give your kit a try. That is also one of the reasons why I'm disappointed. Your sales & marketing did a great job but it also created high expectations. Surely at the very least it created the expectation that the kit would be amongst the best of the Prusa i3 clones and certainly a lot better than the cheap ones from ebay.

Here is another demo of why I'm questioning that assessment



Everything is tight and I'm barely even touching the chassis because I'm trying to hold my phone still in the other hand. With the Y axis motor mounted on the side of the chassis I'm quite sure the build plate is going to be subject to undesired movement just like it is when I nudge the chassis. I suspect the rest of the chassis has the same issue too. I looked around and saw that 6mm aluminium plate and 8mm acrylic are in use on cheaper kits but I measured and found yours to be only 3mm. It does feel rather insubstantial to me. I could go on and compare further against a cheap one from ebay but I don't want to be accused of shilling for some anonymous vendor. That's not my intention here.

Right now you are trading on your reputation but I think if you don't raise the quality and reliability of the kit that reputation will be damaged. You are correct that I am talking with my reseller and hopefully I will reach a resolution but I do hope for the sake of other people who bought the kit you will bring it up to par. IMHO no one should be comparing a kit from a company like yours sold at this price against ones from ebay.

smoreira
BEEVERYCREATIVE
Posts: 29
Joined: 01 Sep 2015, 15:53

Re: Print quality test

Post by smoreira » 30 Sep 2015, 16:29

Thank you for your reply. Before I made my purchase I did spend time reading about the 3d printing process, the different types of printers and generally what to expect in terms of issues. Actually I spent quite a lot of time, I did also note that your company is well respected and that is why I thought I'd give your kit a try. That is also one of the reasons why I'm disappointed. Your sales & marketing did a great job but it also created high expectations. Surely at the very least it created the expectation that the kit would be amongst the best of the Prusa i3 clones and certainly a lot better than the cheap ones from ebay.

Here is another demo of why I'm questioning that assessment



Everything is tight and I'm barely even touching the chassis because I'm trying to hold my phone still in the other hand. With the Y axis motor mounted on the side of the chassis I'm quite sure the build plate is going to be subject to undesired movement just like it is when I nudge the chassis. I suspect the rest of the chassis has the same issue too. I looked around and saw that 6mm aluminium plate and 8mm acrylic are in use on cheaper kits but I measured and found yours to be only 3mm. It does feel rather insubstantial to me. I could go on and compare further against a cheap one from ebay but I don't want to be accused of shilling for some anonymous vendor. That's not my intention here.

Right now you are trading on your reputation but I think if you don't raise the quality and reliability of the kit that reputation will be damaged. You are correct that I am talking with my reseller and hopefully I will reach a resolution but I do hope for the sake of other people who bought the kit you will bring it up to par. IMHO no one should be comparing a kit from a company like yours sold at this price against ones from ebay.

Hi Replicator,

Thanks for this feedback.
This is our first 3D printer kit, so it’s a new thing for us. Anyway, we developed it to be one of the best kits on the market.
I can totally understand your disappointment. This was not our intention as you can imagine. :(
I already had a meeting with our R&D guys earlier today, where we talked about all the precious feedback you’ve all been giving. They will now assess the situation and see what can/must be done. They probably will want to talk to you directly. Are you available to have a skype with us in a few days? :)
If the kit has indeed a development issue we will for sure handle it how it’s supposed to be handle, exchanging defected parts for new and improved ones, if needed.

Anyway, what is strange for me is, because of endeffect’s feedback and yours, I contacted other helloBEEprusa users to check if everything is ok and they are happy with the equipment. This makes me think that you both could have received some helloBEEprusa with some manufacturing issues.

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
BEEVERYCREATIVE team

smoreira
BEEVERYCREATIVE
Posts: 29
Joined: 01 Sep 2015, 15:53

Re: Print quality test

Post by smoreira » 30 Sep 2015, 16:40

Hi

I undertand your point of view, we know a 3D printer need a lot of time to be setted and ajusted, it's normal, but when wee see, like saiy Replicator, we do to redesign a big part of the printer to be functionnal, it's not what i've expected, I'd like to keep your printer with a second next to it functional to improve it, but now my means do not allow me :(

The problem it's i can't print parts for improve it.. because the glass plate it's brokent, the filament stuck.. and on the extruder, the bearings that serve to direct the wire into the hot end are blocked when the wire is tight, as this ball bearing accepts no axial force .. even when slightly tight
Hi endeffect,
Please check my answer to "replicator" on this topic about my last post. :)
We're trying to understand and solve what you reported. I'd had a meeting with the R&D guys this morning. They are assessing the situation and will probably want to have a skype with you in a few days, are you available?

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
BEEVERYCREATIVE team

paulocaveboy
Posts: 17
Joined: 28 Sep 2015, 21:10

Re: Print quality test

Post by paulocaveboy » 30 Sep 2015, 17:12

hi sergio

i have the same issues as replicator and i too did a lot of research before i made a purchase. i have experience with an Up plus 2 3d printer which ive been using at work for 3 years! so im was pretty accepting a fair amount of fiddling and calibration. im an design engineer as a profession so i would like to think i can get around many issues.

I understand there is a level at which to accept within build quality of each individual but the sheer amount of issues there are beg me to question whether it is fit for purpose. i have so far spent 16 hours build time and a further 16hrs just trying to get a decent simple print. i have fully printed one simple object at a slow speed in ABS. i have sent and tried to calibrate in excess of 100 prints without success.

I would appreciate some assistance in smoothing out issues and replacing parts FOC.

regards
Paul robertson

User avatar
endeffect
Posts: 64
Joined: 04 Sep 2015, 17:45
Location: Switzerland

Re: Print quality test

Post by endeffect » 30 Sep 2015, 19:49

smoreira wrote:
Hi

I undertand your point of view, we know a 3D printer need a lot of time to be setted and ajusted, it's normal, but when wee see, like saiy Replicator, we do to redesign a big part of the printer to be functionnal, it's not what i've expected, I'd like to keep your printer with a second next to it functional to improve it, but now my means do not allow me :(

The problem it's i can't print parts for improve it.. because the glass plate it's brokent, the filament stuck.. and on the extruder, the bearings that serve to direct the wire into the hot end are blocked when the wire is tight, as this ball bearing accepts no axial force .. even when slightly tight
Hi endeffect,
Please check my answer to "replicator" on this topic about my last post. :)
We're trying to understand and solve what you reported. I'd had a meeting with the R&D guys this morning. They are assessing the situation and will probably want to have a skype with you in a few days, are you available?

Cheers,

Sergio
Head of Marketing & Sales
Hi

I have time on Friday afternoon, but I do not speak English very well , and I said that I lived in Switzerland

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