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Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 23:37
by gniiiiiiiiiii
Hi there!

I was wondering if it would be a good investment/idea to:

1. Replace linear bearings by Igus parts
2. Install a Zesty Nimble remote direct drive

Please don't shoot me, it's like fundamental research: just asking questions and trying things, with a maybe finding something ending :D

FYI: I don't own this printer actually (WIP), I don't say it could/should be better.
But for sure You guys from BeeVeryCreative have fullfilled my dreams by releasing this beasty beauty. Thanks!

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 10:51
by DomingosRodrigues
Hi there Gni,

That's the kind of mindset we hope from someone with a kit printer, always trying to improve it piece by piece, so don't worry we wont shoot you down :D

As for your questions:

1) Igus bushings (they aren't technically bearings as they have no moving parts) are good but can lead to some extra wiggle room that normal bearings compensate, also they present a static attrition (the force required to start moving from standstill) that is quite a bit bigger than normal bearings. All of this together will lead to a higher likeliness of step loss and will reduce the maximum move speed the printer can perform, on the other side as there are no moving parts the print quality is likely to improve, leading to smoother wall finish, although the default printer can already give a very impressive finish on most parts.

2) We haven't personally tested out the nimble extruder but it's specs look good and should work correctly, although I am a little woried about it's maximum torque and movement transfer delay as it might interfere with your ability to print some materials as well as reducing the max print speed. If you want to change the extrusion my advice would be, in order of easiness of install:
- Keep the printer as a bowden extruder and change the default extruder drive to a Bondtech BMG, it has a substantially better torque and traction than the default extruder.
- Change the extruder to a direct driven E3D Titan Aero
- Change the extruder to a direct driven E3d Titan + E3d V6

Keep in mind that any of these changes will require changes on the printer's firmware in order have the correct maximum speed, extrusion compensation and steps/mm.

Best regards
Domingos Rodrigues

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 12:43
by gniiiiiiiiiii
Dear Domingos,

Thanks a lot for the answers.

1) Igus bushings

1.1) I didn't count on room compensation done by bearings, and from information I've found Igur bushings are obviously loosing material as they age. It depends of course of the combination of rod steel grade BVC has choosen / iglidur type. Including tolerances on every part.

1.2) They seem to be much more silent than bearings, at least from the tests I've seen (just sliding differents bearings on steel rod, with no clue of the bearings quality which is important to know for an objective test). But opening the door to a 4thDimension-Ghost-Ninja Mode where power supply fan is the loudest part... "sounds" great! :lol:

2) Nimble

2.1) According to ... 1732311297: It will fit any Nema17 stepper, suggested torque rating is: 4kg/cm.
I must admit that I don't know what to do with this information, so it's yours now :twisted:
For what I've found on their FAQ, Zesty states that "[...] you want a stepper that has low inertia (so it can start moving fast) and low inductance (so it can handle fast stepper pulses)." So in short I have to check if your stepper are in required specs or if another stepper will fulfill requirements.

2.2) The potential movement transfer delay may require to fine tune the firmware as you already did for the springiness of filament.
Assuming that 1. Steel cable has a very stable behavior over time and 2. Filament's springiness depends on its material: in theory (or in my head only, dunno :lol: ) it might provide even more accuracy as the square drive cable is one unique material leading to a potential constant compensation.
I understand that previous statement can be overthinked, as I don't know the compensation needed in both cases.

Well, first thing first, I have to place my order.

Best regards,

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 05 Oct 2019, 22:41
by gniiiiiiiiiii
Ok, now waiting for 7 to 10 weeks :D

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 06 Oct 2019, 10:58
by raven
DomingosRodrigues wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 10:51
- Keep the printer as a bowden extruder and change the default extruder drive to a Bondtech BMG, it has a substantially better torque and traction than the default extruder.
My experience with this extruder was quite frustrating. It really works and it's impossible for the filament to slip...however the increased torque works both ways and the motor+extruder don't handle the kick from the pressure very well. When this happens the extruder runs backwards which is worst than having les torque.

Also, the bondtech can't handle the default movement speeds and'll have to tweak them.

Best regards

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 07 Oct 2019, 10:27
by DomingosRodrigues
Hello raven,

That's interesting to know, I never had such issues with bondtech extruders in various different iterations of them, in all experiences it always surpassed other extruders in torque and dynamic movement (although a little ratly on the ones with planetary gearbox), the only thing you need to keep in mind is to tighten the spring only as tight as necessary to pull on the filament and adjust the stepper driver for the extruder to have its power reduced in order not to reach an excessive amount of torque that rips out the bowden tubes or even ruptures the heat throats :lol:

The bondtech BMG extruder if correctly assembled and adjusted will exceed both the original extruder and what you need for the default print settings of this printer.

Keep in mind that any major alterations to the printer will require re-tuning the printing profiles to make the most of the new parts as they were optimized by default for the original build.

Best regards

Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 06:51
by servane.tisné
I am not sure this is the good place to ask:

What about B2X300 accuracy printing flex filament( from 98A to 40D)
I read a post on facebook talking about an adapter for the extruder. It seems to be a printed part

Anyone could help?


Re: Improving by replacing parts

Posted: 14 Oct 2019, 11:34
by DomingosRodrigues
Hello servane.tisné,

Indeed the best place for this question would have been a new topic as the information it pertains to is different than this Topics question. This would allow people with the same dificulty to find it much easier through googling it :)

Nonetheless, answering your question, the B2X300 needs a part that need to be printed in PETG in order to allow flexible materials to be printed consistently, otherwise you run into the possibility of the filament, being so soft and flexible, escaping from the traction wheel of the extruder motor stopping extrusion, to obtain the STL please contact so they can explain you the correct process of mounting the part.

As for the filament so far we only tested the hardest shore numbers 95A to 98A and 50D and those print correctly altough as with all flexible filaments some stringing can be seen.

Best regards